@HopelessDemigod well, DM&P does pull off legacy designs in embedded and Industrial with their #Vortex86 series going down to #i486SX.

• Obviously if they didn't sell passively-cooled SOMs on older structural widths, they could in theory kick this beyond 4 GHz.

It's just that there are very few workloads that need absurdly-fast, single-threaded performance* and ain't designed for #POWER9 / #OpenPOWER or #s390x / #zArchitecture mainframes.

• Like it's cheaper to just get an #embedded multicore with like 4x1,5GHz that maxes out at 15W and can be confogured down to 4W and will be overall more responsive and faster in any other workload.

And the few workloads that ain't multithreaded may be coaxed into it with like #vmware #ESXi mashing together multiple hardware threads into one superfast single thread, but I'd say that the vestigal compatibility of like an i7-6700K should potentially work fine, and worst-case one just setsit up to only use 1C/1T and constantly turbo-boost @ 91W TDP…

I wanna have a play with a #Vortex86 machine. Anyone know where I can buy one, which has storage, USB, network, video output, and comes in a box, not just a bare board? I grew out of knitting my own firmware for pleasure years ago and have even less desire to solder a box of bits together.

@deliri Either way, @bananapi illustrates the problem with (halfassed) #RaspberryPi competitiors:

• It's not enough to just spit out an SBC and some bootable ROM! The people want proper #documentation. And besides @raspberry_pi / #RaspberryPi, very few actually write those (i.e. @olimex )…

Cuz if people like #ChrisBarnatt struggle to do anything, why should anyone even more competent like @geerlingguy invest his precious time to make fundamental basics work?

• I mean as much as he jokes about having to compile the #LinuxKernel, I'm pretty shure $5 in hardware cost savings isn't going to get him up and fanboy things.

Personally, I think everytime he has to fiddle around that neck-deep, I consider this a fundamental failure by said SBC if not #ARM64 as #architecture, as in almost all cases this is something that just works on #amd64!

• Espechally since these are "consumer-facing" boards with "consumer-style interfaces" and advertised to consumers, not some obscure embedded/industrial SOM like a #Vortex86!

@philpem maybe search the #changelog|s if support for said SoC / board got yeeted in the meantime?

• Cuz that does happen quite often due to the sheer size of the #ARM "device zoo" and the fact that not everything gets maintained and if noone maintains nor complains broken stuff gets rather yeeted.

Personally I hope #i486 (incl. #i486SX) support remains in the #Linux #Kernel because old / legacy industrial/embedded/critical infrastructure systems quite often still use that stuff or get re-deployed with #Vortex86-SX and other #SoC|s for #ISA support and oftentimes a Linux running ddrescue and/or dd is the only worling and reproduceable way to #backup and/or #restore systems that old.

• It's one of the reasons I started @OS1337.…

@mrmasterkeyboard @hexaheximal I hope not, but then again there were also calls to yeet #i486 / #i486SX support.

• Which would really suck because a lot of newly deployed #embedded systems in #industrial applications are still i486SX-#ISA based like the low-spec #Vortex86 offering #Vortex86SX...

Which you may know from the #Wee86 by @rasteri …

But in the end #support will be up to the #Linux community and @torvalds ...

I.e. #Itanium support as shortly dropped after that got #EoL'd because it was a dead-on-arrival shitshow and basically any buyer stuck with #HPUX on #IA64 anyway…

@charlesarthur What #OLPC did was kickstart the #Netbook revolution and let companies like #AMD & #Intel know what #VIA, #DMP (#Vortex86) and #ARM knew all along: Low-power mobile devices at a low price will sell well!

@krutonium @fuchsiii use a #VM?

Or build yourself a new #RetroPC with like a #Vortex86-SBC/SOM like @rasteri did...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJEp4ZUG7BI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1E2vjpcRo

• I really need to learn PCB layouting and shit for the tiny486…

@slaine I know. #VIA did keep a foot in #embedded since they were still offering new C7 chips in 2016 and are only beaten by like DM&P's #Vortex86 SoC's and their #ICOP-branded #SOM|s...

• The main problem was just that many cool ideas they did - like the #Artigo in 5,25" form factor - were never available outside of closed "big" #B2B-only distributors where one needs to first sign up as a client to even be allowed to browse their catalog and have to fax or call to get actual pricing info.

This is why #RaspberryPi (and to an extent #DMP) own the market, as I can literally just order either conveniently online with not much of a hassle.

• The #OpenBook by VIA is one of the inspirations for the #NUCbook, tho that's because #UCFF is actually an Open Standard as it's dimensions and port arrangements are normed, so one can actually support it.

https://github.com/KBtechnologies/nucbook

@landley @krutonium which,I think is good longterm because it allows for cheaper low-end devices that sip less power for @OS1337 compared to #i486 (like #Vortex86 as used for the #tiny486 board among many more, like @rasteri 's #WeeCee)...

Yeah the #eBox3300 is well known as as a #ThinClient / #Embedded system with those #Vortex86 but not great for #MSDOS #Gaming due to using a cheap #Cmedia #USB-#Audio - Chip instead of a proper #ISA #SoundCard...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZcmCQdSbAk

@krutonium because it necessitates gracefully moving threads to one core and most power saving techniques like dynamic clocking that are done transparently by the CPU are more effectively.

• The switch is for something like a #Vortex86 EX2 or DX3 which don't have CnQ, EIST and other fancy powersaving techniques but run at constant speeds through from power-on to power-off!

@timixretroplays yeah, I guess this shows @rasteri build this before businesses started upgrading tech.

I wished DM&P / ICOP would increase production or that there was an easier way to get other #ix86 SBCs from like #VIA (remember when they made #CUP|s?) or some #embedded variants from #Intel or #AMD.

• Cuz I was shure some #IntelAtom SoC's and #AMDGseries APUs do have #ISA support as they use quite older process nodes and microarchitectures.

• But for a #MSDOS #RetroGaming system, that is quite a bottleneck to work on when it comes to #BareMetal.

#DOSBOX or similar do work well, but they don't provide the necessary I/O for a lot of use-cases.

• I was looking at #PC104Plus (for my #tiny486 project) which just adds #PCI on the opposite side of the board to the ISA pins but otherwise retains #PC104 compatibility.

Maybe you can drop in a different #Vortex86 which also has #ISA?

• I know there are also Vortex86EX2 and others that may be an option...

@cleverboi @FandaSin @BrodieOnLinux @neal to answer your question stuff like @rasteri 's #Wee86 * & #WeeCee ** are quite common in #embedded & #industrial setups because as much superior the #Atom Z520 and E3815 are, these have been discontinued unlike the #Vortex86 SoCs!

• Plus there is no good #ISA support with modern SoC's (Pretty shure not even on AMD's SoC's & #VIA has axed their #ix86)...

Yes, I hate #Microsoft & dislike the fact that people.use #MSDOS despite it being deprecated longer than #WindowsXP exists but someone's gotta have to do #DataRecovery or at least #backup & #restore said systems' drives...
https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/114738983433662865

@cleverboi @FandaSin @BrodieOnLinux @neal as for #i386 I understood why cuz it was more and more painful m, but the problem with #i486 is that in several #embedded and #industrial setups there are still newly deloyed systems based off it.

I.e. #Vortex86 #SoC's cuz #MSDOS and shit still gets used in #industrial equipment.

• And #Linux is kinda necessary to keep that rollin'...

Linux stopped supporting i386 with versions 3.4.99 (longterm) & 3.6.9 respectably.

• And unlike with i386 where none of the toolchain (#musl) and utilities (#toybox) supoort it, i486 is still supported there.

And I really want to continue developing a minimalist "rescue" distro that can handle such legacy hardware because it may be the only option to ddrescue stuff from certain systems or to properly & reproduceably backup & restore them!

@a1ba unsarcastically, I like that.

• But then again I'm a sucker for non-#AMD / #Intel #ix86 / #amd64 #CPU|s and non-#AMD / #Intel / #nvidia / #3dfx (wallet sez so!) #GPU|s.

• Like some #Transmeta / #VIA / #Vortex86 / #Cyrix / #Xiaoxin CPU with like a #SiliconMotion / #ASPEED / #Matrox / #S3 GPU added to it.

Won't run Crysis, but will run @OS1337!

ISA и другие legacy-интерфейсы в современных встраиваемых компьютерах

Несмотря на постоянное увеличение скорости и пропускной способности интерфейсов передачи данных, до сих пор в некоторых областях промышленности востребованы интерфейсы, разработанные еще в 80-е годы XX века. Связано это прежде всего с тем, что к некоторым промышленные объекты и устройствам предъявляются требования по доступности и непрерывной работе в течение десятков лет после ввода в эксплуатацию. Примерами таких шин являются: ISA (Industry Standard Architecture) и VME (Versa Module Eurocard). Шина VME, стандартизированная в 1981 году, служит ярким примером востребованности технологий, разработанных в предыдущие годы. Основное назначение данной шины - использование в сложных системах, таких как промышленные контроллеры, системы обработки данных и встраиваемые решения. Шина VME по-прежнему используется в специализированных областях, таких как аэрокосмическая и оборонная промышленность, где требуется высокая надежность и производительность. VME дала основу для развития и появления новых современных стандартов последовательных шин, таких как VITA 46 (VPX) и VITA 65 (OpenVPX), параллельно оставаясь востребованной на рынке.

https://habr.com/ru/articles/866934/

#ISA #PCI #VME #MicroPC #ETX #embedded_systems #embedded #legacy #vortex86 #vortex86dx

@kalilinux: Meh. It's just not true that x86 CPUs are no more made (as you already says on your page, "i386" does not refer to the Intel processor of that name but to the Debian #32bit #x86 architecture of that name.)

32-Bit x86 CPUs are still being made and sold today, e.g. here: https://www.vortex86.com/

#Vortex86

Cambié el extraño conector de alimentación mini DIN de 3 pines por el más habitual USB B a esta mini PC #Vortex86 de cuya existencia me enteré gracias a los #Cybercirujas. Ahora la puedo alimentar con cualquier cargador de celular que soporte los 1.5 A de corriente que requiere el disco IDE externo. Ya instalé #FreeDOS, ahora toca llenarla de juegos clásicos de los '80 y '90 para usarla como consola portátil en el próximo #EncuentroFederalCyberciruja el 31/8 en #Rosario.

#HackFun #Retrogaming

That being said @w84death 's #Floppinux v0.2.1 just booted through fine, so yeah, perfectly feasible as "low end testbed" unless I get like a #VIA #C3 / #C5 / #C7 or one of those expensive #Vortex86-made #486SX clones that @rasteri used for the #WeeCee, tho I'm shure noone would go below a #RaspberryPi #Pi0 / #Pi0W v1.3 or the original #PiModelB v1.2 in terms of #FrugalComputing.

@sabi Tho depending on your budget, time and skills it may be Worth the effort for you to look at the #Wee86, #WeeCe, #86duino and other projects and see if something like a #SOM / #SBC module with #ISA + custom #PCB may even be a better option, as there are #Vortex86 Chips down to #i8086+#i8087 and those will sip even less power than the #NuXT, making it way more fitting for a short 19" 1U enclosure if you want it to be basically #fanless and #silent to tue point of only having the PC-Speaker as source of noise...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJEp4ZUG7BI

But IDK if you're good at PCB design or what your skillset is in detail or if you just want one for yourself or something you can market to others as a side biz...