Lmst

"De theorie van *immunitydebt* die de wereldwijde toename van infecties sinds het versoepelen van de pandemiemaatregelen zou verklaren, wordt steeds meer in twijfel getrokken door nieuw bewijsmateriaal."

#Covid #LongCovid #Immunitydebt

Waarom wetenschappers de immuniteitseffecten van SARS-CoV-2 heroverwegen.
https://www.bmj.com/content/390/bmj.r1733

This is an important article showing the debate and evidence on the long-term impacts of #Covid, and touching on the political side of the debate. Easily understandable by people not familiar with immunology.
Some chosen extracts here, but the article should be accessible in full.

https://www.bmj.com/content/390/bmj.r1733

Thanks @detachedspork for sharing it first! (https://mastodon.ie/@detachedspork/115060008744414646)
#CovidIsNotOver #LongCovid #ImmunityDebt

[screenshot of an extract of the article]
The theory [of debt immunity] landed in the public consciousness at the right moment. A simple idea that sounded like science, it soothed a public seeking answers just as the world was returning to a semblance of normality. And it served a policy function, allowing governments to focus on economic recovery.

But its explanatory power has faded as the number of non-covid infections has kept rising each year. A 2024 analysis by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention3 found that invasive group A strep infections saw their most dramatic year-on-year increase from 2021 to 2022, well after most precautions had been lifted in the US. Rates have been abnormally high since then, raising questions about what might be behind the trend.

A growing number of scientists believe that the SARS-CoV-2 virus may instead be subtly altering our immune systems. If correct, their hypothesis will change how we understand everything from respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) to shingles to sepsis.

[screenshot of a futher extract of the article]
Wolfgang Leitner, chief of the Innate Immunity Section at the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), speculates that covid-19 may somehow impair the immune system’s “memory” of past infections, potentially making even healthy people more vulnerable to future pathogens. He wonders whether the virus leaves lasting scars on the immune system’s T cell defences. “But that’s just (my) hypothesis,” he emphasises in an email.
Immunity reset?

SARS-CoV-2 is linked to “an unusually high level of ‘indiscriminate’ killing of T cells,”6 says Leitner, adding that this observation is “reminiscent of” measles, which can cause immune amnesia by depleting memory B cells (a different type of immune cell), leaving people vulnerable to pathogens they were previously immune to.7

This concept of immune “reset” after infections isn’t new. A hallmark of this phenomenon is the reactivation of dormant viruses, which re-emerge while the immune system is in a weakened state. Reactivation of viruses, including Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) and varicella zoster virus (VZV), has been commonly observed after covid-19.

[another screenshot]
“I have seen zero evidence to support that—and in fact, all the evidence we have suggests that is not true,” he says. “Except for the small proportion of people who might get some immune dysfunction—which happens with other viruses too—covid doesn’t damage the immune system.”

Others argue that it needn’t be as black and white as “covid does or does not damage the immune system.” Nor does it necessarily have the same effect in everyone.

Jeimy thinks that people who are unwilling to consider the possibility of immune damage are perhaps driven by a fear of what those answers might mean. “Nobody wants to be the one that says, ‘Yes, covid-19 causes disability’ [beyond long covid],” she says, alluding to the health and economic implications of such a conclusion.

Gasperowicz says that “the burden of proof has flipped: instead of showing that something is safe, we’re asked to prove harm.”

Henrich doesn’t see the hypothesis as controversial. “We’ve shown immune dysfunction post covid, including signs of exhaustion and inflammation in people without symptoms,”15 he says, adding that, at the population level, “we are probably living with more inflammation on a day-to-day basis than we were before.”

The difficulty is that these changes aren’t uniform. In some patients the impact of covid-19 is dramatic; in others it’s invisible. Iwasaki and her team have found persistent immune system changes in people who have recovered from covid-19, even without any symptoms.

@DenisCOVIDinfoguy Haven't we been saying this for years? Why is it shocking? I do hope they'll stop banging on about #ImmunityDebt now. #CovidIsNotTheFreakingFlu #WearAFreakingMask @auscovid19

Here's the email I just sent to #ScienceFriday explaining why I will no longer listen to them.
(Text in the replies.)
🧵 1/9
#COVID #CovidIsNotOver #ImmunityDebt #science

See the text of this email in the replies to this post.

"... Think of it like this.
Your body already knows how to heal its skin and bones. You don't have to teach it how to do that by cutting yourself or breaking your arm."
#immunityDebt

"Like many debunked ideas, hygiene theory and the myth of the bored immune system have become entrenched. A couple of years ago, hygiene theory got repackaged as "immunity debt." Now Americans, Canadians, and many Europeans think they need to get sick to stay healthy. The elites have absolutely no problem with that. It saves them countless billions to let everyone continue thinking they're better off letting diseases run around in their cells."
https://www.okdoomer.io/how-your-immune-system-actually-works/
#immunityDebt #publicHealth #inequality

"Like many debunked ideas, hygiene theory and the myth of the bored immune system have become entrenched. A couple of years ago, hygiene theory got repackaged as "immunity debt." Now Americans, Canadians, and many Europeans think they need to get sick to stay healthy. The elites have absolutely no problem with that. It saves them countless billions...."
https://www.okdoomer.io/how-your-immune-system-actually-works/
#immunityDebt #publicHealth #inequality

Martin Angler (@martinangler.com) asked #immunology prof Danny Altmann about #ImmunityDebt and the myth that repeat viral infections benefit our #immune system. Here's a 1-min sound clip of the reply: threadreaderapp.com/thread/18374...

Thread by @martinangler on Thr...

“It’s kind of like a boxer, every fight takes a little bit more out of them. And they’re not getting stronger with every fight, they’re not getting stronger with every hit that they take. Every single time there’s an increased chance that something bad is going to happen to the immune system and I think that this influx of illness that we’re seeing is related to that.”

#covid #immunesystem #vaccines #immunitydebt

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/09/03/COVID-Surge-High-Price-Viral-Denial/

I sometimes wish people would stop brushing their teeth and bring the whole nonsense of #immunitydebt crashing down. Nobody builds up natural immunity to #dental caries by not brushing their teeth, it's bog standard microbiology.

"#ImmunityDebt, it definitely happens, but I don’t think it results in enormous #epidemics after #COVID" Ben Cowling, chair of epidemiology at the University of Hong Kong’s School of Public Health.

What's behind the #PostCOVID surge in communicable diseases?
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/06/15/world/science-health/post-covid-sickness-rise/

‘Immunity debt’ is a misguided and dangerous concept.

#immunitydebt @auscovid19

Source: https://archive.md/60s0p

Wearing a respirator may help you pay off #ImmunityDebt

@Brad

#immunitydebt… I’m so tired of people treating this as a real thing.

#Itslongcovidstoopid

We're in year 3 of the "immunity debt" hypothesis & here's a headline, flu cases in Ohio are more than double the average of cases *between the 2017-2018 & 2022-2023 flu seasons*.

2 OF THE 5 FLU PERIODS IN THE AVERAGE were so anomalously high that somebody had to invent that stupid idea, and yet we're beating that average handily. Sure is taking us a long time to recover from that period when we weren't allowed to cough on each other back in 2021.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ohio-flu-activity-is-high-hospitalizations-over-30-above-5-year-average #covid #immunitydebt

Are People Getting Sick More Since the Covid Pandemic? By Kristen V. Brown

"Immunity debt: No scientific data to support this theory"

"Immunity theft: An area of growing scientific inquiry"

#COVID19 #ImmunityDebt #ImmunityTheft @auscovid19

Source: https://bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-03/are-people-getting-sick-more-after-the-covid-pandemic?embedded-checkout=true

Are People Getting Sick More Since the Covid Pandemic? By Kristen V. Brown March 3, 2024 at 10:00 PM GMT+11
Hi folks, it’s Kristen in New York. A reader wonders whether there are more bugs floating around these days. But before we get to that...
Are people getting sick more often
It seems like everyone I know is getting sick more than they used to. I myself used to only get sick about once a season. This year I've been sick four times. Is this happening to more people or just me? — Amy, Denton, Texas

As I write this, coming off my third back-to-back cold, it sure feels like we’re getting sick more. It’s made me even a tad wistful for the precautions of the Covid lockdown era, which curbed the spread of contagious diseases.

All that viral activity, she says, has naturally led people to wonder whether Covid impacted all our immune systems in some lasting way.

It’s not quite so simple, though, she says.

There are two main schools of thought when it comes to this phenomenon. The first is the “immunity debt” theory, which posits that Covid-era practices like social distancing caused our immune systems to “forget” how to fight certain viruses. But “there is no scientific data to support this theory,” says Wallace.

The second theory is “immunity theft,” which suggests Covid infections could have led to immune system dysregulation and dysfunction. “This is an area of growing scientific inquiry,” says Wallace.

A small 2023 study, for example, found that people who recovered from severe Covid infections had long-lasting changes to the immune system for up to one year. It found stem cells from people with severe Covid produced more white blood cells, which then produced more inflammatory signals in the body. And another 2022 study showed immune dysfunction for up to eight months in people suffering from long Covid.

@helencook Everyone has built up so much poop #ImmunityDebt over their lifetimes…

Why bother with a healthy diet & exercise if you’re going to just flush it all down the toilet?

It’s like making a beautifully crafted object & then torching it on fire🔥

This #telomere #sarscov2 #covidPapers should be read by everyone, especially the #immunityDebt #covidIsACold crowd

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8201243/

Grateful to @_L1vY_ for porting such good information to mastodon regarding #covid #ImmuneSystem damage and helping to debunk the disinfo myth of #ImmunityDebt which tries to blame the on-going rise in respiratory illnesses on the lockdown.

Some people may find an html based version of Dr. Lisa Iannattone's @lisa_iannattone informative and evidence based (with links) thread easier to read and navigate...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1730800968999079992.html

#immunityDebt

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