@Stefan Bohacek

And I agree, of course. I think policing overall should be left to moderators. Especially enforcing unwritten rules and expectations across different communities.

This is the very reason why the Fediverse becomes a minefield for all non-Mastodon users the very moment they establish their first out-going connection to Mastodon.

Mods are or should be more considerate and more well-read about the Fediverse. They (should) know better than to police users from other servers with different rules the same as they enforce their own rules locally.

They (should) also know that not only the Fediverse is more than Mastodon, but that the non-Mastodon Fediverse has different cultures and does not necessarily share Mastodon's unwritten rules. And ideally, they should be able to at least have a rough idea about which "toots" do not come from Mastodon itself.

A mod should know better than to attack and sanction someone who has just posted over 5,000 characters at once with text formatting, headlines, a bullet-point list and weird-looking mentions and hashtags for not complying with Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules because that someone clearly is on something that's very much not Mastodon.

Non-mods don't care. They attack whomever they feel disturbing. And as for the above poster, they want that kind gone from the Fediverse altogether.

Especially Mastodon servers really ought to introduce rules against excessive policing by non-mods.

This has created a very toxic and gatekeepy atmosphere that's causing a lack of diversity on here.

And yet, it's usually the non-Mastodon users who are being accused of gatekeeping and being toxic. If they're identified (or, more often, openly identify themselves) as non-Mastodon users, that is.

CC: @Leon Cowle

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #Gatekeeping

@Leon Cowle @Stefan Bohacek Yes, that's the trouble with CW policing: People don't police CWs in general. They often don't just police the obvious CWs for porn and gore either. Instead, they aim to enforce all the CWs which they personally need. Regardless of what someone else may or may not need. Then you comply, and then someone else comes and berates or even sanctions you for using too many and/or completely superfluous CWs.

I've compiled a list with over 140 topics that someone demanded be CW'd at some point. And it's very incomplete because it should technically include politics from not only every last nation on the planet, but also every last federal state, province etc.

The worst offenders are those overly sensitive snowflakes who probably came over from Tumblr, and who present themselves as so easily triggered that they absolutely need literally everything CW'd. And as so feeble that they cannot take care of protecting themselves in any way. Granted, I think it'd be too much for them to set up hundreds or thousands of individual filters, especially what with how unnecessarily complex Mastodon's filters are. But still, they see themselves as entitled enough to demand everyone force CWs for everything on everyone, regardless of who needs CWs for what, because they need CWs for everything.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Filter #Filters #Mastodon #MastodonCulture #Hubzilla

@David Tanner 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 @Stefan Bohacek You don't. You don't apply them to stuff that you send to others. You apply them to stuff that you receive in your timeline. Not for others, but for yourself.

I think the issue here is that it's often hard-wired in Mastodon users' heads that "CW" equals "poster-side" equals "provided by the poster for all readers all the same".

In this case, it's different. It's all happening on the reader's side. Like, the filter generates a CW for the reader who sets up the filter, depending on what keywords the filter contains, depending on what keywords are in a post.

You, as the reader, define what you want to have hidden behind CWs for yourself. If something disturbs you just enough to have it hidden, but not enough to have it purged from your timeline entirely, you set up a filter with the corresponding keywords. And that filter will hide content with at least one of these keywords in it behind a CW. Automatically generated only for you, personally, individually.

The next user does not want the same content hidden. They do not set up such a filter. And they see the very same post without a CW without having to do anything themselves.

I mean, I guess you know what filters do on Mastodon. Normally, they remove stuff from your timeline. But with this setting, they hide that content behind a button for you instead of completely removing it.

Maybe it's easier to understand for us Hubzilla users because we've had something similar since before Mastodon was even made, much less since before Mastodon started repurposing our summary field for poster-issued CWs. So automatically generated, individual, reader-side CWs are the default for us and part of our culture whereas they came to Mastodon too late to become part of Mastodon's culture.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Filter #Filters #Mastodon #MastodonCulture #Hubzilla

@Salinger 3 I didn't make this video. James Atlloud recorded it.

And if you watch this video, you can watch James Atlloud literally learn about the existence of PeerTube from me in the course of recording this video.

Four minutes after the show was done, James told us the video is uploaded, and he gave us the URL. There simply was no way in hell that he could have set up a PeerTube channel within such a short time after the recording.

When the recording was started, James didn't know PeerTube exists. Petlove didn't know PeerTube exists. I'm not sure if Thirza knew that PeerTube exists.

And when Mal Burns, who originally started Inworld Review and died some two years ago, started Inworld Review many years ago, PeerTube did not exist at all yet.

Watch the video. I literally talk about PeerTube in the video. And I also mention that it's possible to mirror an entire YouTube channel onto PeerTube. This was seen as an option then. But in order to copy all Inworld Review videos from Mal Burns' YouTube channel to PeerTube, this would require access to Mal's Gmail account or downloading and re-uploading them all, one by one. This is mentioned in the video, too.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #PeerTube

@Salinger 3 I didn't make this video. James Atlloud recorded it.

And if you watch this video, you can watch James Atlloud literally learn about the existence of PeerTube from me in the course of recording this video.

Four minutes after the show was done, James told us the video is uploaded, and he gave us the URL. There simply was no way in hell that he could have set up a PeerTube channel within such a short time after the recording.

When the recording was started, James didn't know PeerTube exists. Petlove didn't know PeerTube exists. I'm not sure if Thirza knew that PeerTube exists.

And when Mal Burns, who originally started Inworld Review and died some two years ago, started Inworld Review many years ago, PeerTube did not exist at all yet.

Watch the video. I literally talk about PeerTube in the video. And I also mention that it's possible to mirror an entire YouTube channel onto PeerTube. This was seen as an option then. But in order to copy all Inworld Review videos from Mal Burns' YouTube channel to PeerTube, this would require access to Mal's Gmail account or downloading and re-uploading them all, one by one. This is mentioned in the video, too.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #PeerTube

@zotheca @Stefan Bohacek It isn't the title field. It's the summary field. It has been the summary field since Evan Prodromou added it to Identi.ca in 2008. And it only became a CW field when a Mastodon user for the demo scene submitted a merge request to Mastodon's GitHub repository in 2017 which repurposed this summary field, unused by Mastodon at this point, as a CW field.

My own POV on this is a whole lot different from typical Mastodon POVs. I've joined the Fediverse on Friendica in the early 2010s as opposed to on Mastodon in the 2020s before I moved on to fledgling Hubzilla.

Now, both Friendica and Hubzilla as well as the whole rest of the family (of which (streams) of 2021 and Forte of 2024 still exist) have a nifty optional feature called "NSFW": It's a list of keywords which, if detected in a message, hide the entire message behind a button. Much like the hiding feature in Mastodon's filters, only not built into the actual filters, much more simple and over 12 years older than Mastodon's solution.

In this software family, the NSFW feature is not perceived as a filter, even though it's very similar to the actual channel-wide filters (which, by the way, are among the few things which are more simple even on Hubzilla than on Mastodon because they've only got two keyword lists, an allowlist and a blocklist).

Rather, it's seen as an automated, individual, reader-side CW generator. It's deeply engrained into the culture of these Fediverse server applications which is a great deal different from Mastodon's culture. And it's seen as vastly superior to poster-side CWs that are forced upon all readers all the same.

A takeaway from this software family: If you write a potentially sensitive post, and you have no way of artificially weaving NSFW-triggering keywords into the actual post text, add them to the bottom line as hashtags. I do that all the time, hence the hashtags that start with "CW" to make clear that they're supposed to trigger reader-side CW generators.

By the way, the Friendica and Hubzilla inventor and (streams) developer Mike Macgirvin proposed two catch-all hashtags for sensitive posts to the (streams) users (that was before he forked Forte off the streams repository). One is #sensitive which also has the side-effect that (streams) and potentially also Forte make Mastodon blank out all images in the post. The other one is #⚠️. Or, if your post is really disturbing, #⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️. However, this has yet to find its way into Hubzilla, not to mention Friendica or even Mastodon and the rest of the Fediverse.

As for the summary field, if Mastodon actually managed to push its entire community away from fixed poster-side CWs towards automated reader-side CWs, the whole field would be useless. I mean, Mastodon didn't support it at all before it had a CW field because, frankly, you don't need summaries for 500 characters.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Filter #Filters #Mastodon #MastodonCulture #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

It has finally happened. I was a guest at Inworld Review and interviewed by Thirza Ember and James Atlloud of @HG Safari fame as well as Petlove Petshop today.

Here's the video, redirected to Invidious. (Link instead of embedding so I hopefully don't have to spend months writing a visual description that'll take you days to read or listen to.)

Better yet: Thirza wanted to interview me about the Fediverse. Good thing OpenSim users are already used to things being decentralised because OpenSim itself is. In fact, I could have told her that some of the tropes associated with OpenSim being decentralised apply to the Fediverse as well.

Extra shoutouts to @Elena Rossini for her Fediverse video featured on fediverse.info and to @Dorena Verne as a good example of a grid manager (see Petlove's video in the video) because she has managed to move Dorenas World from a Windows server to a Debian server and considerably speeding it up in the process.

For those who aren't familiar with Inworld Review: It's an OpenSim-themed talkshow on YouTube started by the late Mal Burns many years ago. His whole backlog of almost 400 episodes can be found here. And here is the channel on which Mal's former co-host continue Inworld Review without him with 62 episodes so far.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds #InworldReview

It has finally happened. I was a guest at Inworld Review and interviewed by Thirza Ember and James Atlloud of @HG Safari fame as well as Petlove Petshop today.

Here's the video, redirected to Invidious. (Link instead of embedding so I hopefully don't have to spend months writing a visual description that'll take you days to read or listen to.)

Better yet: Thirza wanted to interview me about the Fediverse. Good thing OpenSim users are already used to things being decentralised because OpenSim itself is. In fact, I could have told her that some of the tropes associated with OpenSim being decentralised apply to the Fediverse as well.

Extra shoutouts to @Elena Rossini for her Fediverse video featured on fediverse.info and to @Dorena Verne as a good example of a grid manager (see Petlove's video in the video) because she has managed to move Dorenas World from a Windows server to a Debian server and considerably speeding it up in the process.

For those who aren't familiar with Inworld Review: It's an OpenSim-themed talkshow on YouTube started by the late Mal Burns many years ago. His whole backlog of almost 400 episodes can be found here. And here is the channel on which Mal's former co-host continue Inworld Review without him with 62 episodes so far.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds #InworldReview

@Stefan Bohacek This is the case for three reasons.

One, Twitter has never had this feature. And if Twitter doesn't have a feature, it's hard for many to imagine that Mastodon has it.

Two, there is no dedicated button for it up-front in the timeline view, neither on Mastodon's Web interface nor in any mobile app.

Three, it came too late. Mastodon's culture as we know it now was coined in spring 2022 by those who had escaped from Twitter after Elon Musk had announced he wanted to buy it. However, this filter feature was introduced to Mastodon with version 4.0 in October when Mastodon's culture was already set in stone for all eternity.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Filter #Filters #Mastodon #MastodonCulture

@⚝ Mirko ⚝

Du glaubst doch nicht ernsthaft, dass jemand, der sich die Mühe macht, eine eigene Instanz hier zu betreiben, nicht weiß, was es noch so alles gibt?

Doch, glaube ich.

Es gibt durchaus Mastodon-Nutzer, die schon nach kurzer Zeit auf die Idee kommen, ihren eigenen Server aufzuziehen. Zu dem Zeitpunkt müssen sie aber noch nicht wissen, woraus das Fediverse besteht.

Mir ist selbst schon jemand begegnet, der nach mehr als zwei Jahren immer noch glaubte, das Fediverse ist nur Mastodon. Derjenige hat erst in der Interaktion mit mir von mir erfahren, daß es im Fediverse auch noch andere Sachen gibt als Mastodon. Wahre Geschichte.

Außerdem würde ich es mal als erwiesene Tatsache ansehen, daß es Leute gibt, die Sachen fürs Fediverse entwickeln (Smartphone-Apps, Websites) und zu dem Zeitpunkt auch nicht wissen, daß das Fediverse mehr ist als nur Mastodon.

Beweis: FediDevs. Das war aber bis vor gar nicht so langer Zeit hart und direkt gegen Mastodon, nur gegen Mastodon und gegen nichts als Mastodon gebaut. Es war nur Mastodon-Nutzern auch nur technisch möglich, ein Konto zu bekommen, und es war auch nur möglich, Mastodon-Konten in Starterpacks einzutragen. Es hat sich aber schon immer großspurig "FediDevs" genannt.

Du verbeißt dich in genau diesen Nichtigkeiten, die dem Fediverse nicht gut tun.

"Nichtigkeiten". Dir ging es auf Friendica und Hubzilla eindeutig zu gut. Wahrscheinlich hattest du kaum Kontakt nach Mastodon.

Dich hat nie ein Mastodon-Nutzer angeschnauzt, du sollst gefälligst alle deine Posts auf maximal 500 Zeichen begrenzen oder dich aus dem Fediverse verpissen. Im Gegensatz zu @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts, dem genau das passiert ist.

Du hast dich nie mit einem Tech-Journalisten gefetzt, der nicht nur darauf beharrte, daß Mastodon ein eigenes, in sich geschlossenes Netzwerk ist, sondern auch noch sich selbst in dieser Angelegenheit als kompetenter als du bezeichnet hat, weil er ja Journalist und damit Profi ist und du nur Amateur. Wieder im Gegensatz zu @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts, dem genau das passiert ist. Und dem passieren noch ganz andere Sachen.

Dich hat nie eine Mastodon-Nutzerin blockiert, weil sie dachte, das Fediverse sei eigentlich ein reines Mastodon-Netzwerk, und du seist ein böser Hacker, der sich mit einem Hackertool namens Friendica illegalerweise ins Mastodon-Fediverse reingehackt hat. Im Gegensatz zu @Jakbous Schürz, dem genau das passiert ist.

Konzentriere dich lieber auf deine Instanz.

Und das zeigt, daß du nicht nur nicht den Hauch einer Ahnung hast, sondern auch noch so von deiner eigenen Überlegenheit überzeugt bist, daß du es für unnötig hältst, jemals irgendetwas zu recherchieren.

Nämlich, daß du es als unumstößlichen Fakt ansiehst, daß die Netzgemeinde meine Instanz sei.

Übrigens ist @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts ein "alter, weißer Mensch" (je nach Definition von "alt"). Außerdem ist er Cishet-Mann, verheiratet und Familienvater. Trotzdem hat er alle wichtigen *keys schon durch, er ist der deutschsprachige Experte für *key, sein Daily Driver ist Calckey, und der ganze Server wird demnächst nach Sharkey umziehen. Und so unbekannt ist er im deutschsprachigen Fediverse nicht. Noch ein Zeichen, daß du keine Ahnung hast.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon

@⚝ Mirko ⚝

die Adminbubble dort ist sehr viel ausgeglichener und lässt vor allem andere Plattformen in Ruhe.

Mindestens die Hälfte von denen weiß doch gar nicht, daß es auch noch andere Fediverse-Serveranwendungen gibt. Für die ist das Fediverse gleich Mastodon. Und von denen, die das wissen, wissen die allermeisten nicht, was die anderen Anwendungen können.

Warum hat die "Mastodon-Community" beispielsweise nie gefordert, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, die Forkeys, Friendica, Hubzilla usw. zu deföderieren, weil die alle in der Lage sind, jeden öffentlichen Mastodon-Tröt widerstandslos zu quote-posten? Weil auf Mastodon praktisch niemand weiß, daß die dazu in der Lage sind. Wüßten die das, hätten sie längst die Messer gewetzt und die totale Deföderation gefordert.

Außerdem wird man auf diesen Serveranwendungen immer wieder von Mastodon-Nutzern diskriminiert oder gar attackiert. Man soll sich gefälligst an die "Fediverse-Kultur", will sagen, Mastodon-Kultur halten (was impliziert, daß man die eigene Kultur über Bord werfen soll). Man soll niemals mehr als 500 Zeichen posten. Man soll "alle notwendigen" CWs ins CW-Feld eintragen (also Friendicas Abstrakt-Feld bzw. Hubzillas Zusammenfassungsfeld) und es gar keinen Fall für irgendetwas anderes benutzen. Und so weiter.

Derweil beharren praktisch alle Mastodon-Nutzer darauf, daß das nie passiert. Weil sie nie mitbekommen, daß das passiert. Ihnen selbst passiert es ja nicht, weil sie sich als Mastodon-Nutzer eh an die Mastodon-Kultur halten, eh nicht mehr als 500 Zeichen haben, das CW-Feld nur als CW-Feld kennen usw. Und wenn es ihnen nicht passiert, dann sind sie der felsenfesten Überzeugung, daß es gar nicht passiert.

Das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse widersetzt sich ständig Mastodons Kultur und bricht ständig Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln. Die allermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer wissen aber nicht, daß das passiert, ganz einfach, weil sie davon nichts mitbekommen. Dasselbe gilt auch für die allermeisten Mastodon-Admins.

Mastodon stellt im Fediverse irgendwo zwischen 60 und 70% der monatlich aktiven Nutzer. Aus irgendwelchen Gründen aber kommen gefühlt über 98% des Post-Aufkommens auf Mastodon von Mastodon selbst. Du kannst 4 Jahre auf Mastodon sein, 1000 Konten folgen und dich trotzdem in einer reinen Vanilla-Mastodon-Blase bewegen und erst nach diesen 4 Jahren deinen allerersten Beitrag mit über 500 Zeichen zu Gesicht bekommen. Wenn überhaupt.

Mastodon-Admins sind gegenüber dem Rest des Fediverse nicht deshalb so entspannt, weil das, was Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica usw. nach Mastodon schicken, für sie okay ist. Sondern, weil sie gar nicht wissen, was Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica usw. nach Mastodon schicken und viele von denen nie auch nur irgendwas von diesen anderen Anwendungen gehört haben. Sonst wären tausende von denen an vorderster Front mit dabei, wenn es darum geht, alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, auf Mastodon zu blockieren, das kannst du mir mal glauben.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #ZeichenLimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #FediverseKultur #MastodonKultur #MastodonRegeln