@cyan is that why I listen to so much goth shit

@lina "bath pouf"

inspired by CLAUDE.md, I’ve started putting markdown files named after coworkers into work code repos so I can remind them to stop doing shit to the codebase that annoys me

for some reason they’re all mad at me now, which means ill be adding commands to JEREMY.md for an attitude adjustment

@brunomiguel turn around don't drown?

je suis une lapin somnolent

@cobra @jasonzemos

I don't like nor dislike jzk at this time. I am just trying to ascertain which fork I should use and the pros and cons of both. To do that I must learn about the differences of both forks.

But in my research I have seen e.g.

https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/420740#issuecomment-3101117326

and

https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/420740#issuecomment-3111902374

which lists a lot of PDUs from you that do not seem particularly flattering.

I have seen screenshots that are alleged to be from the continuwuity devs, but they are not backed up by PDUs.

PDUs seem like the stronger "receipt", no?

@js one side has PDUs, the other has screenshots. that is my point.

@js that is basically what I am getting at, yes

@jasonzemos @cobra I guess my point here is if we must blame one or more Matrix protocol expert(s) for the abuse that occurred, amongst Matrix protocol experts with relevant intersectionality you are just as suspicious as the continuwuity developers are.

You have had several opportunities to agree with the supposition that the abuse came from somebody who was *not* a Matrix protocol expert. It is curious that you counter rather than deflect.

@jasonzemos @cobra

okay, so we cancel out half of the bullshit and we arrive back at "the continuwuity fork exists because they don't like jzk".

this is compatible with "June got trolled when her project took off and she did not have the mental health support she needed to deal with it."

@jasonzemos @cobra

I don't see anyone making aggressive counter-claims, but rather the claim that they did not say the things in the screenshot. I don't know, because I wasn't there.

The signatures would say for sure.

I am perhaps aggressively asking questions about this, but that is because I want to understand the risks of using this software.

To be clear, I do not *care* about your behavior 8-10 years ago if I can establish that it is different *now*.

That is what I am trying to do.

From my perspective, there are three possibilities:

1. The continuwuity developers are lying and actually did originate the harassment.

I rate this a solid maybe. Fedi does have a lot of "mean girl" shit.

2. Another Matrix protocol expert joe-jobbed the continuwuity developers.

To be direct: you are a Matrix protocol expert who has gained from the deletion of conduwuit: now you directly lead the tuwunel fork which has been named its successor instead of continuwuity.

You are also a Matrix protocol expert who has exploited the Matrix protocol in the past.

I rate this a solid maybe, as well, perhaps slightly more than (1) simply due to the technical expertise.

3. KiwiFarms (or some other community like it) saw a transwoman with vulnerable mental health that they could abuse for 'the lulz'. They get bonus lulz by making it appear the developers of continuwuity are behind the attack, because again, Fedi has a lot of mean girl shit and is just as joe job friendly as Matrix is.

From my perspective I actually rate this as the most likely.

But to get to the truth, the other two possibilities must be eliminated.

@equinox I am not saying in the general case. I am saying in the case of a Matrix protocol expert who is working with another Matrix protocol expert, who are accusing other Matrix protocol experts.

people born in 26 will be 2000 soon

@equinox what I am actually implying is that the Matrix anti-abuse model is really friendly to Joe jobbing.

@jasonzemos @cobra oh, to be clear, I have no doubt that June was dealing with unprecedented levels of abuse.

the problem is that sockpuppet accounts can be used to abuse others too. in fact, it happens all the time.

in a protocol like Matrix where sockpuppet accounts are cheap (basically free) and the only way to know the authenticity of an origin for certain is by auditing the signatures, something the target of abuse is unlikely to do (due to being overwhelmed from being the target of abuse), it seems likely that the abuse could come from sources other than the sources they appear to be.

hence why auditing the signatures is critical to know for certain.

in other words, i believe it is fully possible that another party led june to believe that the continuwuity developers were the ones abusing her, when it could very easily have been anyone who stood to gain from her deleting the project.

hell, it could have been someone on kiwifarms for that matter.

the point is that you can't make assertions about where abuse comes from without auditing the signatures in a protocol where signatures are the only thing that matter.

@jasonzemos @cobra oh, to be clear, I have no doubt that June was dealing with unprecedented levels of abuse.

the problem is that sockpuppet accounts can be used to abuse others too. in fact, it happens all the time.

in a protocol like Matrix where sockpuppet accounts are cheap (basically free) and the only way to know the authenticity of an origin for certain is by auditing the signatures, something the target of abuse is unlikely to do (due to being overwhelmed from being the target of abuse), it seems likely that the abuse could come from sources other than the sources they appear to be.

hence why auditing the signatures is critical to know for certain.

in other words, i believe it is fully possible that another party led june to believe that the continuwuity developers were the ones abusing her, when it could very easily have been anyone who stood to gain from her deleting the project.

hell, it could have been someone on kiwifarms for that matter.

the point is that you can't make assertions about where abuse comes from without auditing the signatures in a protocol where signatures are the only thing that matter.

@fluttersh ok. that does not change anything.

@fluttersh unfortunately, the projects I want to continue interacting with are moving to Matrix and the IRC side experience is horrible

@risottobias just trying to get to the truth as Edith Stein would want!